Saturday, June 27, 2015

The Bible and being Gay

This is where the friction is. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of gay marriage, there is an uprising of angry people who find being gay an abomination before God. Well, it's high time people learned something new. I'm going to set this issue on its ear. I may lose Facebook friends over this, but if it's that easy for you to walk, you likely won't be missed. Yes, this is going to be that serious and straight forward. The problem the way I see it is that people who are angry about this don't know a single thing about what it's like to be gay or why people are gay. So let us start with that.

Being gay is not a choice. It is a proven physiological orientation that cannot be helped any more than what color your eyes are or how tall you will grow to be. That is a fact. It's been proven by scientific studies over the recent decades. While I'm not gay, I was worn with a difference in wiring too. I was born with Asperger's Syndrome. Neither situation is product of a disease. Neither situation is a product of choice. So why are we holding people accountable before God for something they could not hope to choose or control? Better yet, who are any of you to be judging anyone as faulty before the eyes of God? Last I learned, that was his power alone.

Now for a history lesson. In the time the Bible was being compiled (around what, a thousand years ago?) times and beliefs were different and moreso savage. There are many practices of the Bible, still in the book that we do not practice today. Look at them and ask yourself why we don't practice them:

If a woman harms a mans "unit" she is to have her hand cut off without mercy; Deuteronomy 25:11-2

If a man's "unit" is damaged he shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven: Deuteronomy 23-1 (Too bad so sad for all those industrial accidents and cancer victims)

Women are not allowed to have any positions of authority over men. Timothy 2:11 (Look back at your history to see the same failed arguments of today for comparison. When women were given the right to vote for example)

If a woman is not a virgin when she marries she is to be stoned to death. Deuteronomy 22: 20-11

If you curse at your parents you must be killed.  Leviticus 20:9

So tell me. Why don't we follow these select portions of the bible? They did back those barbaric times and it IS the word of the Bible.  I'll tell you why. Because we know better. Because he have discovered these practices to be wrong. We have discovered that there is actually a difference in the Bible between the prehistoric beliefs of man versus the teachings of God or Jesus Christ. We don't even teach those passages in Sunday School. You never hear them preached from the pulpit in a conventional church. We've learned that a woman has the same rights as a man. So too, do all people as we hold all human beings equal (or we're supposed to).

This is where someone is likely to throw the bestiality argument or comparison in. But it's a faulty argument because we are talking about the rights of human beings on all sides. Not man to animal but human to human.

It's time to lift ourselves past this and learn like we did when it came to women's rights that this is no different. It's human rights. And we have to stop holding people accountable for how nature made them. For how they are beyond their own choice. If you really believe the good words of the Bible, you'll realize this to be true.

Now let's accept people for who and what they are and move on. There are problems in our world that have demanded our attention with far more importance than gay marriage. Homeless vets, child starvation, crime, and joblessness come to mind. Get a grip people. Get with the times. We're supposed to know better by now.

In response to a question below before anyone else asks: You can google these with ridiculous ease, but here's one to start on:   STUDY LINK.

32 comments:

Michael Francis Saunders said...

> "Being gay is not a choice. It is a proven physiological orientation that cannot be helped any more than what color your eyes are or how tall you will grow to be. That is a fact. It's been proven by scientific studies over the recent decades. "

Can you give me pointers to these studies?

David Wilde said...

Sure if you can't google them for yourself: http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html Is just the tip of the iceberg.

Seth Clayton said...

I also like how people ignore Leviticus 19:28 and get biblical quote tattoos.

Or how many "good Christian men" ignore Leviticus 19:27 and 21:5 and remain clean shaven.

We're all people. We need to be kind to each other and stop inventing reasons to hate other people.

If being gay is a choice, then being straight is a choice. I'd be curious to know when other straight men made that conscious choice. I didn't wake up one morning and say, "you know, I think I'd like to be straight today... Whelp, I guess that's that!"

Since sexuality is genetic, those who hate gays are obviously saying they hate God's will. God made them like that, so direct your rage at God, and not at the person who has no control over how they were made.

David Wilde said...

Well said, Seth.

Gary Harding said...

This only goes to show your lack of knowledge concerning Gods Word. Yes this is a Christian nation and I still use and try to live by the bible. This Nation was founded on Christian principles.

What is see from above is hen pecking through God's Word to try top prove or push your agenda. Any other person of faith will see this as a feeble attempt as well. It only process you have never read what it says.

By trying to promote ones beliefs you trample on another's worth no respect for them. Remember respect is earned not given.

Seths comments were equally stupid with no sigificance. You can be gay weekend you're picked on and not accepted by the opposite sex.

Scientist can't refute the bible and infact use it.

I don't even know what to say other then if I'm wrong in trying to live a moral life and follow Gods Word who have I hurt if there is no heaven. But if you die David and I'm right. I pray you read his word before it's too late or you or your family need Him.

Jesus Said he that is not for him is against him. Sounds like you're not on his side. It also says what fellowship does light have with darkness.

I don't have to research the bible to find ammo I've read it. I suggest you do the same. We don't stone or kids either. We have a new high priest in Jesus and He is three answer to our salvation.

I hate to say it but I have never seen such bull crap in a blog or anything else in my whole life. That above is junk and makes no sense and is not biblically sound.

You have type opinion and I have mine. Murder is next I guess.
I didn't know you were an atheist.

Just sickens me.

Gary Harding said...

I cant stand predictive text

David Wilde said...

I don't believe the exact way you do, Gary, but I'm far from being an atheist. You've misquoted about 100% of my points. I'll leave it at that.

Kerry Mann said...

My God is a loving God.

Kerry Mann said...

My God is a loving God.

David Wilde said...

I can agree with that Kerry. No dispute here.

Gary Harding said...

It's not even worth going line by line. Maybe some one else will do it. If sin is a sin and you believe in God then why openly support something you know God is against. You put rainbow over your face. It's actually an abomination to God (disgusting)

Gary Harding said...

Surely your blog isn't just for people who think only like you do.

Gary Harding said...

Well Kerry if your God is the God of the bible. He can't stand sin. He won't even look at it! Sent His son to die for it.

Kevin Woolfork said...

Judge not lest ye be judged.

. . . and above all love thy neighbor as thyself.

The end.

Gary Harding said...

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope—and with the ultimate goal—of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences—the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

Seth Clayton said...

I'll also agree with Kerry. God is a loving God.

And I'm going to disagree with Gary. This nation is not a Christian nation, despite the fact that it was founded on Christian principles. The Christians who founded this nation came here because they were persecuted by other Christians. And while our forefathers could have said this was a Christian nation, they explicitly state in the bill of rights that we have the right to the freedom of religion. That's the first amendment. It's not the second or third, but the first. It was that important to them.

I've read the Bible. I know that Jesus' message is one of love, tolerance, acceptance, and mercy. I know that within the confines of the Bible, Jesus doesn't speak about homosexuality. There's nothing there from Jesus. Many others in the Bible denounce it, but surprisingly Jesus is silent about it.

But do you know what he does speak about? Slavery. He says that slave owners should be kind to their slaves and slaves should always obey their masters. He doesn't speak out against slavery at all, even when he has the chance to. It was these words that many Southern slave owners used to defend their way of life. Yet we still abolished slavery because it's the right thing to do, regardless of what the men of Jesus' time thought.

And Gary, when you say, "By trying to promote ones beliefs you trample on another's worth no respect for them." do you not see the hypocrisy of your statement? If we're trying to promote our beliefs with no respect towards yours, are you not doing the same? Are you not trying to promote your beliefs? And doesn't it disrespect the beliefs of others? I'm pretty sure that's the Matthew 7:2-5 you're talking about right there.

Saying "Murder is next I guess" is simply a false equivalence. They are in no way related. There is no logical step that gets you from one to the other. They're not even on the same level of "sinfulness." Murder is one of the 10 commandments, that the Bible specifically calls out as bad. Which commandment is "You must be straight?" That's like me saying "If you feed that dog, I guess you'll be addicted to heroin next." It doesn't make any sense.

You have the right to whatever beliefs you want. So does everyone else. However, that right ends when you try to take away the rights of another. You're not the ultimate judge of anyone. It's noble that you believe you're trying to help others. But in the end, if there's a God, he'll judge all of us for our actions. Maybe you're right and we'll end up in hell. But maybe you're wrong and we'll all live happily ever after.

My personal opinion, not that you care, is that love conquers all. Love is the most pure and blessed thing there is. Love doesn't know color or culture or gender or religion. It's universal. Everyone deserves love. And if your God doesn't see love the same way I do, I don't really think I want entrance to His heaven. I'll be happier with love.

Gary Harding said...

You're talking about a different God I guess. They didn't come here to get away from other Christians they came to get out from under a monarchy. The pilgrim compact states clearly this nation was founded for the advancement of the Christian faith.

In Washington almost every statue and everything related to government has scriptures etched in stone . Not to mention our money. Google what percentage of America are Christian. You must pull this stuff out your hind end.

Jesus may not talk about gays. But he said he didn't come to do away with the law of the old testament but to fulfill it. So Gods word then all applies. He don't change His mind. A sin is always a sin and should be called that a sin. That is if you are a Christian. Sounds like you pick and choose what you want to believe and throw out the rest. FYI my God don't care about your back porch philosophy or the political correctness of our nation.

My Jesus was the lamb He is coming back a lion and will rule with an iron fist.

I didn't say I didn't love them. I'm saying the courts have no right to redefine what my God clearly defined in His word. Sin is Not okay and to see someone in it and applaud it or put a rainbow over your face to condone it makes you an enabler and against God.

What bible do yall read that says it's okay for homosexuality people to marry or be together.

They call that cafeteria Christianity where you pick what you like and don't like.

Why did the God of the bible destroy Sodom and Gehmorrah? They were gay. What does your bible say. Or do you choose to ignore that part.

God is the same yesterday today and forever.

Gary Harding said...

They did say it was a Christian nation. Read the pilgrim compact. They doesn't expect all you sadist would be as bad as you are. You really must read before you write.

The first amendment didn't mean not Christian. It meant government couldn't make an official religion like Catholic or baptist. You had your choice of Christian religions and government couldn't force one on you.

David Wilde said...

Having been away from my computer I just want to answer one thing before I crash for the night. Of course my blog isn't for just one kind of person. If that were true I wouldn't allow comments.

David Wilde said...

Okay. As I'm awake now at 4am I'll post something of response, but not much. When I said you misquoted, I more meant misconstrued, Gary. You really didn't give what I had to say a balanced chance or fair view. You took it as challenging the Bible and jumped to defend your beliefs. So you really didn't get what I was explaining at all. Your first response proves this. OH and your autocorrect must have been having a field day because it was super hard to figure out what you were trying to type.

As you said, "it's not worth going line by line" I'd hardly expect you to. But this tells me there's nothing I can say to explain further. You pretty well slammed the door. Then you labelled me an atheist, and further suggested that I sicken and disgust you.

Now I'll point out your comment where you explain your Christian duties to point out the non-Christian behavior and ask you, how far do you get with most people by labeling them like that. Have you had good luck in getting other people to be more Christian by telling them that you find them disgusting, sickening and an abomination to God? I don't know about anyone else but it doesn't make ME want to listen to you. Heck, the only reason you're getting this much response is because of how long I've known you.

You know, there are actually quite a few types of people the Bible calls on as an abomination that may not approach God or even be allowed in church (but we don't follow this, wonder why)

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)

By the way, according to the bible I have a defect since I have a "mental illness" and therefore cannot go to Heaven. Since I have MS, I have a defect and should not be allowed in church. How would you feel if this were followed strictly today since I know you know at least one person who would fall under it's unfair wheels. Or would you argue that we need to evolve to more tolerant people and realize that everyone is of worth?

Gary Harding said...

Okay see the scripture you just quoted. Get it in the right context. That scripture was for people who could go into the holy of holies. That's why there was a priest who went in for us. That was done away with when Jesus came. He now is our mediator we can go straight to him.

I didn't say it was disgusting God did. No in a normal setting I don't run up to sinners and say your disgusting and going to hell come with me.

I show them love and tell them they are sinning. I don't let them think it's okay to continue in it. But I do it patiently in love.

The problem is the government saying it's ok.

I told you predictive text made it hard to understand.

Believe me I thought about blocking you but didn't for the same reason. You CAN be gay if you dont fit in with the opposite sex. Not made that way just feel you have no other options. My sister in law is fine example

Gary Harding said...

See what i mean about looking in the bible and trying to pick and choose what you want to use without knowing anything about it. The above referenced scripture does not mean what you implied. You can go to heaven just read the rest of the book. Lol.

Gary Harding said...

Show me chapter and verse of King James where God calls a sin an abomination other then a man lying with another man.

Gary Harding said...

God knew this would happen:

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
(Rom 1:26-32 KJV)

Gary Harding said...

Women having sex with women is against nature as they can not have a baby

David Wilde said...

"You'll go to heaven if you read the rest of the book" So what you are telling me is that it's okay to ignore that scripture so long as I follow the ones you say to?

You see, that's my point. I know we don't follow those scriptures and I know I'm not taking them out of context. There's no misunderstanding what they are saying.

We don't follow those areas of scripture, just like we don't follow the parts about how our women have no rights over men because we have evolved as a society beyond this.

You find people being gay as disgusting, you said so right up there ^^^. You labelled me and atheist and said QUOTE: "sickens me". How is someone supposed to take that exactly?

You don't have to accept gay marriage. No one expects you to go to a gay wedding or be gay. But you have no understanding of what being gay actually entails.

I don't believe that God holds them as an abomination. I believe the people (who were not God) wrote those words based on the beliefs of those times over 2 thousand years ago. God does not hold a Zebra at fault for its stripes nor a shark for its teeth.

Now, if you really want to block me because my beliefs are different than yours, that's on you. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last.

I've never known you to be one to mince your words, Gary. You've always been one of great conviction in your beliefs and thoughts. And clearly I've accepted that in you or we wouldn't be talking.

Do you remember what life was like for me in school? I was bullying target numero uno because I was different. I didn't fit in to any social caste and I suffered for it. Between the abuse of my stepmother and the fact that there was no safe haven at school is what caused me to strike out on my own at 14 years old.

You were my best friend during those years, even though your pranks got me two of the worst beatings I ever had. Even so, I've forgiven far worse in my actual bullies than that. You were Dennis the Menace compared to what others did to me (of which I never told you one tenth of).

But you see, I know what it's like to be cast out for items not of my fault. If only I could show you how much I hated myself for what others did to me. How I almost didn't make it to today. Yes, I tried to commit suicide. So my beliefs (that ultimately saved my life) come from a depth that I don't think you know. I have visited many religions and belief systems in my life an search for self and more.

So yes. My beliefs are different than yours. If you must block me for them. Fine. Go in peace and know I've held nothing against you.

Gary Harding said...

I didn't say read the book and you will go to heaven. You can read it and go to hell. You fail to understand what I said about the scripture . Yes you misunderstanding it in it's context. We had a priest from the tribe of Aaron and he went in with our sacrifice in the holy of holies and prayed on our behalf. The faults listed we unable to go to God. But your stuck in the mud and don't want to acknowledge Jesus and how you now have him. See I was saying if you read the whole bible and not sections you googled it would male sense.

My goodness your stuck on that scripture which you have taken great deal with and cling to it with your dying breath, when you don't understand the whole story so I said read the book.

I said I wasnt blocking you. I know you went through a hard time I saw it first hand remember,? From school to your dad. I too have been to a low place. I'm not talking about testing religions I'm talking about reading Gods word and know Him not what some preacher tells you read it yourself.

Not split into sections.

I can take scripture and turn it into what I want.

Like go therefore, hang thy self. You are Not understanding it in the context of the way things were and the way they are now.

What did I do that got you a beaten? Also, I remember I caught flak just for being your friend and didn't care. You got me into DeMolayand interested in dtawing.

As far as atheist I thought you must have been until you said you werent. Also sickens me is because as a Christian and having people support people who ate living in sin makes my stomach turn. No Mauer if it is gay, porn, child molestation, rape or murder. It's a sin to a Christian. So yes I find it disgusting to support something God clearly is against and most people with morales are against.

You've been my friend a long time and on this sport you have of this sin. I do not agree wroith bit that's your choice and on your head. But because I don't agree don't mean I dislike you. I just don't agree. If you are quoting scripture or of context I as a Christian and friend am going to tell you is out of context.

If you really believe what you ate baking in that scripture how can you call yourself a person of faith. By that scripture you quoted you will never make it to heaven. Unless your Not talking about the bible and your budist or muslim. But even Muslims are against the sin of being gay.

Gary Harding said...

You said "I don't believe that God holds them as an abomination. I believe the people (who were not God"

God don't care what you or I think. His word is final. If your a believer. If not then think like you do. But you can't straddle the fence it is what it is or it's all a lie.

David Wilde said...

I know you took crap for being my friend. But you don't remember those two events? That's actually kind of funny. The first time: I missed the bus because you and I had to stay after class. I walked past your house instead of the route I normally walk home, but I didn't stop there. My stepmother called your house and you told them that I did stop and visit you instead of walking straight home. When my father questioned me on this he decided I was lying to him and gave me an ignoble beating, demanding that I change my story. When I wouldn't (in spite of being beating nearly raw) your house was called again to clarify that I did keep on walking. That may not have been a prank on your end in that case in particular, but it was a terrible day.

The second time we were in science class and the projector was next to my seat. You said "Quit messing with the projector, David" even though I hadn't touched it. I was sent out of class immediately. For getting kicked out of class I got a beating because they wouldn't believe me at home that I didn't touch that projector. It was a prank on your part and I remember that clearly, but I never told you the results.

I am not stuck on those scriptures, I was trying to make an example that you are not following.

At the end of it, I'm saying that we need to see beyond. I don't believe being gay is a sin because it's NOT THEIR FAULT they're gay. I don't believe that God is going to hold them accountable for what nature did to them. And you don't see it that way or can't see it that way. That's fine. We differ there, and that's fine too.

So that's it for me on the issue. I see it as supporting human rights. Not sin. Now I hope that the world gets over this soon and we can get on to things that really are hurting and killing people in our country.

Beyond it all, there is something much bigger coming. It won't have anything to do with gay people either. There's a pressure cooker out there and we need to be ready for it to blow. I hope we can weather that storm because it's going to be ruthless.

Gary Harding said...

Wow sorry about both those incidents. I don't remember them. But I didn't have any repercussions that would keep a memory like that. Once again sorry.

I don't believe God would put something in someone's genetic make up that would bound them to hell. I know there's some science but I also know there's a choice for some if not all. That's like I don't believe God wouldn't let you into heaven for a mental illness.

But we can agree to disagree and stay friends and each feel like we are standing on our convictions rather then cave and cower and not stand for anything which is worse. More people need to stand up and voice there opinions. Instead of letting the minority in the nation get their way because they are the only ones complaining. People can't gripe about our nation if they don't vote.

David Wilde said...

I do believe we can come to an agreement there. And you don't need to be sorry. It's just memory and really, you had no idea until later on what was going on at my home. We've both faced our personal hells and grown to do pretty good for ourselves all things considered.

I would disappointed if you did "back down". That's not you at all and not really me either.

Gary Harding said...

Lol that's right. Old friend